More Players!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by crispy1989, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. legacy_taggerungkid
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    legacy_taggerungkid New Member

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    A enhanced vanilla PVE map would be awesome. Maybe have something like zombie hordes, objectives ("Capture the flower! A flower has been placed at 2,000 3,567! The first one to get there earns a diamond block!").
     
  2. legacy_alive88
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    legacy_alive88 New Member

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    Just to clarify not a minigame but an entire map devoted entirely to cooperative survival PvE, no griefing, etc. Like cboom said this would bring the other huge chunk of minecraft players who prefer PvE to PvP. Very few servers are dedicated to maintaining a "no reset" map, and I would be willing to bet that the number of players flocking to such a PvE map PLUS the incredible battlegrounds you all have would be huge as time progressed.
     
  3. Twosies__
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    Twosies__ VIP VIP

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    Well, Alive, the hardest part of Legion having a "fully cooperative" PvE map would be enforcing the cooperation. Griefing and thievery happen on every server and are encouraged in LOA. Making a server where those things are against the rules would be difficult.

    The most obvious difficulty is preventing grief. Plugins like Factions and Towny are very unpopular with the people on this server, and for good reason. A good plugin for fighting grief is one that can roll back individual user changes. The admins have implemented this plugin in LOC. However, the database for the plugin gets huge. It may only be possible to rollback changes in the PvE map by a few days. This would make some people very butthurt if they got griefed while on vacation, and couldn't get their work back. This plugin also can't fix more creative griefing like tree spam, lava-water/cobblegen spam, or even TNT greif (not without breaking TNT altogether).

    One of the most difficult challenges to a PvE map would be preventing thievery. Chest protect is another unpopular plugin that wouldn't get implemented. Tracking every person's interactions with inventories and chests is a huge project, especially if you're trying to handle the edge cases where someone used stolen goods to create other goods with crafting or smelting, combined with placing down place-able items, and giving stuff away. It would either be easy to steal things and make it so your victim never gets them back, or it would be easy to trick the mods into thinking you've had something stolen from you, and get free duped items.

    Making a coop server would be a lot of work for the admins. They would have to get the plugins working properly, and probably write a custom reporting plugin so that users can report griefers. What's more, they would then have to hire a mod team dedicated to looking into those reports. The mod team would have to be dedicated to wading through the drama that comes from disagreements and reverting grief as best they could. The PvE map would be by far the most high-maintenance map Legion has ever had.

    I like the idea of everyone on LOA who cares to contribute cooping and making large cities, but I don't think it's very feasible to have to enforce no stealing, no griefing rules in a PvE server. If these difficulties didn't get addressed, and griefing or thievery were allowed, then the co-op server would just be a no-PvP version of LOA. People would just have to sit there and watch their base get raided because they can't defend it.

    If you have suggestions to address the difficulties I've laid out, please suggest them. Remember, plugins like Faction, Towny, or Chest Protect are not in the spirit of Legion servers and are basically out of the question. If anyone can figure out how to successfully get a co-op server going on Legion without restricting people's freedom with unwanted plugins, I know a lot of us would be interested.

    Also remember that at the moment, the admins are very busy working on various projects all centered around getting more players, so be aware that a good idea with a lot of work involved might not be as high a priority as a good idea with less work required. Don't be discouraged if you don't see a co-op map in the next month or more, even though you've had good ideas. The admins very much notice your suggestions and discuss people's suggestions a lot on the mumble.

    EDIT: I was projecting my personal opinions on the rest of the server, accidentally. I'm personallly against those particular plugins unless they were significantly altered, but certainly not against Coop PvE. If/When the admins get to this project, it'd be great to have a lot of community discussion on what the features of the coop plugins will be.
     
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  4. crispy1989
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    crispy1989 Donor VIP Donor

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    I don't think a PvE map is at all out of the question. While it's true that it would be a lot of work to get set up correctly, it's not unfeasible, and could be done.

    Twosies, the plugins you list as "not being in the spirit of Legion Servers" isn't quite correct. They are not in the spirit of LOA. However, for a PvE server, similar plugins would work quite nicely. Legion Servers is a collection of different servers, each with its own rules, style, and philosophy.

    However, we do have experience with Towny, which is really the only currently acceptable plugin for this. And Towny is broken, broken, *broken*. We'd have to reimplement a replacement from scratch, which would take some time. So while it's possible, it won't happen for a while.

    Another possibility would be to whitelist the server and to do away with all of the anti-griefing plugins. But this would eliminate essentially all attraction for outside players.
     
  5. Twosies__
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    Twosies__ VIP VIP

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    Yes, I think I made some faulty assumptions about Legion Servers. I'd love to see a Co-op PvE server, so I definitely support working on this idea. If/When we add this server, I think there should be a ton of community input before hand, so we can see how the people of Legion want it to work.
     
  6. legacy_Kalodiin
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    legacy_Kalodiin New Member

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    The way I see it, the best way to make a PVE server without encountering the problems Twosies mentioned is to make cooperation between players a necessity to survive. Here's an idea I had:

    During the daytime, everything is relatively peaceful. But during the night, the mobs begin to spawn- but not your regular vanilla MC mobs. Zombies and skeletons wielding picks and axes can tear down most structures. Creepers will explode if they can't get to you, tearing down walls or creating paths for other mobs. Hostiles will not simply attempt to attack you: they work together to stalk you, create a gaping hole in your defenses, and overwhelm you. And you are always being followed.

    In conditions like this, it would be impossible (or at least brutally difficult) to survive solo. Managing your base at night becomes very hectic as you have to patch up holes and deal with attacking mobs at the same time. Having a team would significantly lessen the difficulty as some people could patch up the holes while others could combat the mobs.

    So what do you think? I can expand on the idea if you like.
     
  7. Bancey
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    Bancey Donor Donor

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    Ohh I like Kalodiin's idea, a PvE server but with a twist.
    Also I have experience running a PvE server before and its not that hard. People will abide by the rules or they just won't be allowed to play on the PvE server.
    -Bancey
     
  8. Twosies__
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    Twosies__ VIP VIP

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    I think Kalodiin's idea is great, as long as you can keep mobs from spawning in your city. I'd mainly play a PvE map to coop with people and build a huge city. It'd be neat if there was an expanding front lines where people were dealing with Kalodiins's mobs, but I'd like to be safe, well behind them.
     
  9. cboom45
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    cboom45 Donor VIP Donor

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    this is very neat. Maybe some way to claim land so no mobs spawn and the more powerful you get the more mobless land you have?
     
  10. legacy_Kalodiin
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    legacy_Kalodiin New Member

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    Glad everyone likes my suggestion ;D

    Twosies: I was thinking of a situation where you would never be able to build a structure that would make you completely safe from attacking mobs. None of the mobs could break obsidian, but a special "ghost" mob type would be able to move through walls, and grant its ability to nearby undead mobs. So, a permanent "stronghold" would be possible, but players would always have to watch for occasional mobs slipping through. Also, the amount of mobs would be affected by the amount of players, how long they have spent in the area, and what tactics they've been using to deal with the mobs.

    cboom: Claiming land seems a bit too similar to factions. The spawning would still be light-based, but if there are none around you that are currently aware of your location, a group could be randomly spawned anywhere.
     
  11. cboom45
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    cboom45 Donor VIP Donor

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    yah but if you build a giant fortress its no fun having mobs spawn in them and lighting it all up is sometimes near impossible
     
  12. legacy_Kalodiin
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    legacy_Kalodiin New Member

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    The mobs would always pursue the nearest player, no matter what the distance (but would only break blocks if they can't find a path). So this would only happen if you have a really big base. As for the ghosts, they would be a very rare and incapable of actually harming players(and perhaps two variants- a reaper, which kills crops, and a thief that takes items from chests).
     
  13. cboom45
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  14. Bancey
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    Bancey Donor Donor

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    Actually they have a "sight" radius that they look for players in.
    From the players in that radius it will then select the closest player or the player that aggro'd that mob.
    -Bancey
     
  15. legacy_Kalodiin
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    legacy_Kalodiin New Member

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    Yes, but they could be coded to constantly move in the direction of the nearest player (and this would only happen at night).
     
  16. crispy1989
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    crispy1989 Donor VIP Donor

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    Recoding mob AI is a huge undertaking that takes enormous amounts of time and effort. I've done it once, for tower defense, and that took weeks. I'd need a sizable chunk of free time to implement something like that.
     

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